Way back around v1.4 of Gentlemen of the Row, I got a ton of requests to have gang presence in the city post-game. The feeling from many players was that things were boring just fighting the police after you had wiped everyone out. I spent all sorts of time trying to find a way to make that happen with cheats, scripts, etc…
Fast forward a few months, and I finally came up with an idea in v1.7 to remove one small territory unlock for each gang. The result was that there were tiny pockets of gang resistance left that you could go and start a fight with. These areas were all in out of the way locations like the beach, trailer park, and a tiny arm of the docks and warehouse district. One of the neat side effects of doing this was that the gangs would randomly do pushbacks post-game.
Since then I have received a lot of negative reaction to the change. I have gotten hundreds of questions from players who didn’t look at the readme, asking if something was broken in the mod (because those territories were never gained.) Many players hate it so much that they learn how to mod just so that they can change this one thing back to the way it was to have the map all purple.
I’ve been wondering if perhaps this was a bad idea and the hood unlocks should be reverted back. There are still non-flagging cheat codes that players can use to add gang notoriety and achieve the same effect without this change. I would certainly miss the random pushbacks that happen post-game, but it really wouldn’t be that big of a loss.
So, please leave a comment and let me know what you think. Everyone’s input is appreciated, as always.
What about making a separate version or making instructions on how to revert the changes? Not really practical, but hey.
After all, people WILL complain regardless of what you do. Perhaps eve moreso if you revert to the old scheme. If I were you, I’d just ignore them – it’s a mod (with a change that you, the author, like), it’s supposed to alter stuff, and a lot of it.
@encogen
Another separate version of GotR? There are way too many versions already! It’s totally out of control managing six separate builds!
I don’t think that having additional instructions will help much. These are the same people who won’t even bother with the basic readme.
Honestly, it’s really not a big deal to me either way. I can actually see where people are coming from with the complaints. Also, my thinking is that, a new player is going to wonder if something is broken when they finish a gang storyline and they have a territory left over that they don’t own. They can’t buy the stores in them like the rest of the hoods. The whole thing just seems really… sloppy.
So yeah, it’s one of those things that I think is neat and I like, but it also bugs me too.
The big question which you never answered is what do YOU think? Do you like those three territories left in gang control or not?
Yes I do, I like the whole pushback business and starting shit with gangs.
Liked it since GTA3. Probably because I rarely use any cheats.
>> It’s totally out of control managing six separate builds!
Thought so too. Imagine 12 builds. :V
>> a new player is going to wonder if something is broken when they finish a gang storyline and they have a territory left over that they don’t own
But they ARE playing a mod – they should be aware of these changes. If not – well, hell, no one forces you to play it. Speaking of which, a text file separate from the main changelog (called “READ ME FIRST FFS”), briefly listing all or, at least, the most imoprtant features would help clear misunderstandings.
>> So yeah, it’s one of those things that I think is neat and I like, but it also bugs me too.
Shit happens when developers/modders start looking too much into negative fan feedback that does not offer any rational solution to the problem in question. I’d just shrug off the whole “They Changed It Now It Sucks” complaints. Besides, it’s not like you’re making new enemies on your own blog as it happened over at the official forums.
On an unrelated note, the Fusion DLC for Serious Sam is out and it’s working great. Though you probably already know that.
@encogen
I get what you’re saying, but simply ignoring tons of negative reaction would be silly and egoistic on my part. It’s not about making enemies or perceptions, it’s simply taking a step back and examining this part of the mod with a critical eye and seeing what the hardcore players and followers think about it.
Keep those territories for those gangs, it adds to the after story gamepay
I don’t like it. They try to take hoods back when I am chilling around.
Isn’t there an option where you can use a cheat for unlock the hood or don’t?
@Koen
Adding cheats that toggle hood ownership was one of the very first things I tried. Unfortunately, cheats are structured fairly rigidly and most of that happens behind the scenes in the exe. There’s not much you can do with cheats unless there are already predefined elements for them.
What about if you added gangs on the white areas of the map (prison, ultor etc.) and could be activasted by turning a cheat on so you could add gangs only if you wanted it.
@plk4
I have already tried that with no luck. I can’t remember exactly what the result was, but unlocking those hoods either crashed the game or just nothing happened. Also, there is no way to associate cheats with hood unlocks, unfortunately.
IDK, while that is something that I would really like, why not just use the gang notoriety cheat? Cuz that’s what I do.
I say reinstate the hoods. But really, how hard is it to keep making your mod like you’re doing, but then after its finished and you’re ready to post it online, rewrite 3 lines of code and save it as a separate version to post along side your original? I, for one, read the readme and STILL hate the hood changes.
@Anon
Thanks for offering your opinion, but this is going to be a decision to keep or discard the change in the mod. Creating a separate version is out of the question. This is because it wouldn’t just be one separate version, it would be six additional ones, or else someone would complain about theirs being missing:
REMOVED HOOD UNLOCK BUILDS:
Standard Hood Unlock
Standard Hood Unlock 360
Standard Hood Unlock PS3
Open Hood Unlock
Open Hood Unlock 360
Open Hood Unlock PS3
So, that means tracking and writing additional files for each one, uploading an extra 250Mb for each release, and the big one… TESTING all these builds to make sure that something didn’t get missed.
Then what happens if some core change needs to happens later that forces another branch? That would increase them exponentially to TWENTY-FOUR builds that would have to be maintained, tested, etc. Where does it end?
No, the final solution is either keep it or revert it. Users will just need to make the changes themselves to the source I include in each release and compile their own build if they don’t like the outcome.
Idea…
What if I created some kind of final mission that doesn’t do anything other than unlock those 3 hoods? The people who want them unlocked can do the mission, and the people who don’t could ignore it? There wouldn’t be any goals to it or anything. It would simply be walk 10 ft to that light cone trigger if you want the hoods with a couple of warnings and end.
I was thinking it could warn the player at the start with something like:
WARNING: This mission rewards the final 3 hoods that were removed from the Post-Game Gang Control mod. Step into the light (cone) to unlock.
Next lightcone spawns another 10 ft away with the trigger message:
Are you sure you really want to own these hoods? Gangs will no longer spawn and you’ll only have the Police and Ultor to fight!
Next lightcone spawns another 10 ft away:
You can cancel this mission by pressing the d-pad down twice. Last Warning!
Next lightcone succesfully completes mission unlocking the three hoods.
My only worry is that we’ll eventually hit a limit on missions and this one will be wasted…
Thats a great idea, but how many missions were you planning on making? and how many missions does the game allow you make?
@rudemaker
No idea on both counts. :/
And… I just found a problem…
Each mission is going to take up one additional cts coordinate trigger, which are already maxed out. I would have to find something to remove to make even one extra mission work. Also, I still have 4 dlc missions to try and squeeze in. I don’t think is going to work…
Well, what I was thinking is if the mission is small then maybe more missions can still be added.
@rudemaker
It probably doesn’t work that way. It’s never been a matter of lines of code. It’s more a matter of hard numbers. i.e. X number of missions can be inserted before it bombs out and crashes. That’s the way the rest of the limits have seemed to work so far, anyway.
I suppose I’ll need to create a bunch of extra missions (with nothing really in them) and see how many I can put in before it crashes. That is if I decide to go this route.
Oooh, that really really sucks…. Still think the gang notoriety code is the best way to go.
I really hope you do that because it does get boring post game if you could give that a try man Id really appreciate it.
Could you add an item that increases your gang noterity? I’d like to see a melee or pistol slot radio that your character could use to call up gangs and taunt them. When you want to go start a fight, go do it, otherwise you’re fine.
@BBC
Unfortunately, notoriety doesn’t work that way with the sr2 engine. There is simply a set point value for different aggressive actions against property or an individual. They are very broad strokes and you can’t specify a certain weapon or item in relation to that value. For example, killing a gang member, attacking a civilian, attacking the el train, etc. It’s a shame because I would love to make a silencer kill give zero notoriety if not witnessed by the police.
There’s really no way to change that, at least at this time. Sorry.
Idol I’m telling you ‘fam just give this idea a shot and release it and see what happens I really support this idea.
@Ross
Not sure what you are actually trying to encourage me to do… It’s already in the mod. It has been since 1.7. Three territories do not get owned by the player (one for each gang) by the end of the game. The post is about the fact that I’m considering removing that feature due to the complaints, and asking for opinions. It sounds like you’re in favor of keeping it the way it is?
about the cts triggers, not sure if this work but could you remove some ho-ing diversion points at stores? you only should be able to do ho-ing in strip clubs!
and now the real problem…i think the areas are fine the way they are.
see, what is the REAL problem players have against it? not to buy shops in the areas? there are many shops with the same name all over stillwater so why buy your items there? not to receive 100%? the game is about FUN, and this fun comes out by unlocking FUNNY items like weapons, not areas. But it is FUN to start a fight with gangs and police at the same time! The only thing you could do is to write a readme that make the people really clear that they can’t get 100% or unlockes all areas…
GotR is a storage from mods which are good, but now remove some mods is something that isn’t the style of GotR. You said people wish to fight against gangs in v. 1.4? and that is just fine. GotR is a public work. people ask you to do something, and if this isn’t impossible, you give it a try. same with the areas!
You really should ignore those players because they know the mod and the changes if they just read the goddamn Readme!!
@Z3R0
Your idea about the hoing triggers worked perfectly. Honestly, I had completely forgotten about the hoing diversion triggers. I’m not going to remove all of them at once, but I have about 13 or so to play with and remove as I need them for other triggers.
Thanks for the great suggestion!
Looks like the idea of an extra optional mission isn’t going to fly for the hood unlocks. Adding 3 hood unlocks to 1 mission crashes the game on load. It would have to be 3 separate missions, each unlocking 1 hood. It’s really not worth wasting the extra triggers on something like that at this point.
Keep it!
could you make them all share a hood (just say they are all working together to rebuild and destroy the saints or sommat like that lol) then you wouldnt need 3 mission points would ya? i think that would be pretty cool
and if you cant do that then i say keep it the way it is
what about what i said. all 3 gangs in 1 hood? is that possible (im seriously doubting it is lol). if you could do that though i for one think it would be cool
@TyF-E
Not possible, unfortunately. Even if it was, it’s still a limitation of how the unlocks work and not related to gang presence at all.
Im going to put a vote in (if it still matters) for not keeping them in. Postgame I find them sort of a nuisance then anything else. If “boredom” is the rationale for putting them in, I don’t understand why people aren’t simply starting a new save which is what I often do…..or the countless diversions and activities there are to be done. ….or just killing cops which I find to be similar enough.
With that said though, its a great mod either way. The pushbacks as far as I can tell, seem to happen rarely and not often enough where it gets annoying. But it still seems to me that there are better ways to kill time post-game.
Id say a compromise if its evenly split is to do something like, one hood open with a single gang since it doesnt appear as they can be combined.